Before we go ass over tea cup on solar and randomly accuse people of being
anti everything, how about we calm down and take a look at solar reality
anti everything, how about we calm down and take a look at solar reality
SOLAR????? A cloudy fall day in Cape Vincent. See solar radiation maps later in this post.
How about we actually try to take a look at solar energy and learn something and stop with other blogs one liners and griping about who is anti this or that.? How about we use some facts…what do ya say! First, I am not a solar expert but I do have some experience in this area since I live in a passive solar house and have visited right on the ground several big industrial solar installations in Arizona, California, and Nevada.
Pictures below, Solar One near Las Vegas, NV. The power plant itself
is just another industrial facility. Is that appropriate for Cape Vincent?
If you have this in the CV interior you would have to have another industrial district!
This is not a solar voltaic plant. It uses the sun to heat
water to make steam that drives a turbine
The first thing that needs to be clarified when we say SOLAR. Saying “solar” is like saying “dog”. That doesn’t tell us what type of “dog. Are we talking passive, active hot water for heat or domestic hot water, concentrated sun on tubes, or on a tower both which produce steam to run a turbines, solar voltaic personal or industrial, is there any storage capability?
Let’s look at a quick video about Solar One south of Las Vegas, NV
Solar One…64 MW capacity on 400 acres at an estimated average 25% capacity factor. That would be 16 MW for Solar One in reality. That’s what I am finding is the average capacity factor for really sunny SW desert solar installations. Actually less than I expected. Oh right…it gets dark at night..no sun! Really not much power. A solar plant in AZ has a capacity factor of 19% but it isn’t in the absolute best place in AZ for solar but it is still very sunny, far sunnier than NY. Best I can find some Websites give NY about a 14 – 17% capacity for solar power. The is not good especially if you want a large reliable power source. I don’t see how this is any better than wind. I have very serious doubts about solar in NYS even though CV might be a little sunnier. It’s not rocket science…you need lots of SUN!!!
This is SUN...you need a lot of this for solar power. Above, sun in the Mojave Desert
Below, sunset in CV after nearly a week without much sun.
In terms of power production for what we will pay in subsidies it is no better that wind. It may have less direct environmental impacts, however. I still don’t see how solar will ever replace the big reliable base load power plants, or even peaker plants. There is one positive to solar that wind doesn’t have. On a hot sunny summer day in NY or AZ, solar can “help” meet peak load since when the air conditioners are needed like in Phoenix in the summer, that would mean it is probably very sunny as well and you can get solar power.
See this solar map for the US
Any more questions about solar in CV. ????? It is really a pretty simple equation.
In the picture below is a different approach from a solar plant near Barstow, Ca. that I have been to. Mirrors that focus sun on a several hundred foot tower. The tower at night has numerous lights and strobes. Not something I would want to see in CV. So be careful when you think solar , especially industrial solar because I think there is a misconception about it just like wind for some. They see small solar panels, not this.
The first experimental Solar One in the Mojave Desert near Barstow Ca.
Photographer unknown
Big solar is not a benign development. For example you can’t graze cows or raise crops, or hunt, or ride your ATV under a solar installation, If you cover 400 acres of field…IT IS COVERED.
Industrial solar covers the habitat Photographer unknown
What about that grassland bird habitat? The viewshed could be mitigated easier, however, I personally think the mirrors are less intrusive because basically they are reflecting the sky an don’t move except very slowly to track the sun. The actual power plant is another matter. It is a large industrial building and when you are right up close to the mirrors you know it is an industrial complex as well…don’t kid yourself. I would not want to live near this any more than I would a wind complex. In fact, wind turbines are spread out, and even thought they are visually invasive, some landscape is still visible, and usable. Not so with an industrial solar complex…all the land is committed to that industrial use.
What about subsidies for solar? The Energy Information Admin. says about $ 24 per MW. And don’t be fooled, you have to look at $$$ per MW of production, not on the gross amount of subsidy. Nuke gets about $1.59.
These industrial solar projects are huge but low in profile except for the actual power plant, unless you see them from an elevated location. Then the mirrors look like a lake. Not that unpleasant. They do need a transmission line as well. What you don’t see in the video is that along the road to this plant which we drove there is a large dirt berm that mitigates the view of the mirrors and much of the power plant. That could be easily done in Cape Vincent
Now let’s talk about a different approach. What about personal solar passive or voltaics. Personally I would stay away from heated water storage or heat exchange systems since they are complicated and seem unreliable. Some people I know have these are not very happy with them or have decommissioned them I had a panel for domestic hot water. It was a drain back system so it wouldn’t freeze, with pumps, heat exchange tanks and electronics. It would heat water so hot you had to have a valve to introduce cold water into the system so you didn’t get scalded. It lasted about 15 years and cost almost $4000 in 1986 when I built the house. It is now decommissioned but I might get it working some day. There were times we could go a long time without our electric back up water heater. The rest of my house is passive solar. We have solar rooms that will heat up too 90 or 100 degrees even in winter and the heat is blown into the house. Some winter days we can go from about noon when the house heats up till early morning the next day without our gas heat back up. The house is super insulated. It is simple, and I roughly figure I get about 35 maybe 40% of my house heat from solar. In the summer we have panels that block the sun.
My passive solar home on a typical Flagstaff mid winter day.
We get about 300 days of sun a year.
95 degrees in this solar room. House about 73 degrees.
About 28 outside.
Passive Polar!!!!! I figure I get about 35% of my house heat from
solar. But not today!!! Solar has limitations.
But this was a personal choice. I really don’t even know the pay back schedule. But I know that when I am not using nat. gas that the fuel is stopped, unlike solar voltaics which a power plant still runs in the background like for wind whether it's big solar or small voltaics. I actually stop using the fossil fuel when the sun heats my house. I still use electricity for other things, and I KNOW what the limitations and realistic expectations are of my solar commitment because I live it 24/7. So for all you who think we should solve our energy and climate issues with renewables…get started and stop waiting for industrial wind and solar and make a personal commitment in time, life style, and money and then let’s see who actually stands up for the environment!! Why are we waiting for someone else to do it…especially BP. I don’t see heavily subsidized industrial solar as the solution for CV.
Unlike Wiley and his JLL blog and commenters and the drive by view he had of a solar planet, and then bitches that we are anti everything…it actually takes some knowledge and commitment, real world experience and a serious discussion, not blog one liners. Just like wind that we didn’t know much about, we have to explore and study solar to make sure we understand the implications before we jump head over ass into it because it sounds good. You think we would have learned that by now. If you think solar is the answer in CV, then do something personally about it as an example. I am not anti solar or wind on a personal scale, and you can get subsidies for it too. I would rather an individual get something back instead of some polluting energy giant.
Wiley and the JLL commenter once again are trying to convince you that I/we are radical crazies who don’t want anything industrial in CV. Well I am not a radical crazy but he is right one count. I DO NOT want industrial uses that are invasive to our natural beauty, especially when they are being served up by the likes of BP with their spectacular environmental screw ups. I’m not sure why anybody would want to industrialize CV other than small compatible uses. Especially when there are renewable alternatives that are not invasive…Oh but right… we might have to put our money where our mouths are,and that could be uncomfortable.
Next I will post my experiences with my neighbor who has solar voltaics on his house and is a PhD professor in electrical engineering. We will also look at another unique solar alternative if you want solar in CV. Sort of a hybrid personal and industrial solution. But again it takes a real personal commitment. Some actual ideas and experience to evaluate the solar possibilities.
I am open to answering questions about the technicalities of my house and experiences.
I am open to answering questions about the technicalities of my house and experiences.
So if you are interested stay tuned!
No comments:
Post a Comment