I have been having an extended debate with one of my blog readers. And I have finally boiled it down to the essence. There is nothing relevant to the crisis wind Cape Vincent is mired in. It is the age old desperate attempt to divert the messenger and the message. Our board made the astonishing declaration that the Art X rules are fair and impartial. That is the focus of my recent blogging, so don't let this person take your eyes off the real question they are desperately try to do damage control on. Look closely and you will see what I mean. They offer no explanation on this comment, they offer no solutions, they only make you look elsewhere on what is a stunning statement by town leaders who are supposed to be leading a community that was stripped of it's critical community right. This person is attempting to keep you and I entertained on personal soap opera BS away from the critical question! Age old diversion. Don't answer the original uncomfortable question...just get the messenger defensive by asking another one!
Here is my comment to this person.
I went back and read all your comments.
Here is actually the sum total of what you have said… or if you haven’t said it directly, you are certainly implying it with sarcasm when you remove your high brow debate bullshit!!!.
1. I’m always twisting your thoughts.
2. Pundt doesn’t have the balls to apologize WHEN he IS wrong.
3. I make stuff up to pad my arguments.
4. I’m not capable of debating the facts.
Of course on this one you have presented NO facts releant to the cape Vincent wind issue or our board’s recent Art X fair and impartial comments…NONE, so I’m not sure how you reached a conclusion I can’t debate them when they don’t exist!!!
5. Always taking things out of context.
6. Implying I should crawl under a rock.
7. I am not self depreciating.
8. Implying I am not very smart and will need a lot extra time to answer your lofty.
questions and debate.
9. I am always taking things out of context. Oh wait I said that already!
10. I am not capable of blogging or posting competently.
11. I have no courage.
12. Can’t speak honestly ( 11. and 12 are really ironic coming from someone
frightened to put their name on their comments in public!!!!
13. I’m a legal idiot that should have no opinion and shut up.
14. I side step the issues and am incapable of answering.
15. Can’t stick to my story.
16. I have no input.
17. I am toxic.
18. I have been sidelined.
I’m sure there may be some I missed! Oy and let me make it clear. It is not offense to this stuff I take issue with. That is the price of the ticket for having the balls to take stance and put my name on it.
Now I’m wondering…is there actually a relevant POINT buried in here somewhere that relates to the actual debate surrounding the wind issue in Cape Vincent and how the board is handling it???? I don’t know if you even live in CV, but our community is under attack by powerful political and corporate interests that have already stripped away our critical home rule rights and may destroy our community. And this is the sum total of your argument…Pundt is bad guy and should apologize? Really… That’s it???? On this critical issue THAT is all you have? the future of the community actually rests on my apology on something that is pure speculationmaybe a couple years away. That is really your concern...really???? Man... you need another hobby!!!
Please tell me the with the severity of what we are facing and the critical nature of it that you have actually have something more that might address the crisis we are facing as a community for at least 7 years. Please tell us you have something much more relevant than the "Days of Our Lives" or the Young and the Restless"!!!
You are asking me to apologize for my “attacks’ if I am wrong, yet when you boil down your comments, among your supposed high minded bullshit is nothing more than the exact same. Attacks!
Now one might conclude that the sum total of you comments are that you have been assigned the specific task to make sure the actual message I am debating about the town thinking Art X is fair and impartial , gets quickly side lined. You seem to be spending a great deal of time on this apology nonsense, for some reason, and it isn’ to make a relevant point about the CV wind issue or your board!
And what the hell difference does it make in the big critical picture of the crisis in our community, if I apologize or not…there is NO relevant point to that one way or the other. It is tiny inane personal attack minutia that has NO bearing on anything! Well other than a desperation to marginalize the messenger and his message. Then it makes perfect sense.
Now when I go after the town or a town officer, at least I do so with a POINT to the relevant argument and trying to add something to a critical debate about the disaster we are facing. There actually is a critical and very often well thought out and often documented POINT.
Your diatribe, however, when actually boiled down is nothing more than a diversion. Make sure you do the best to make Pundt look not credible so God forbid…somebody might do a little independent thinking, pay attention, and might agree with me, and my question might raise some eyebrows and catch on, where others might say WTF!!! Maybe a lot of others who thought they had a board that was fighting for home rule instead of appeasing it and calling the system that stripped it away fair and impartial!
That after all was the start of this entire debate on a critical subject that you are desperately trying to divert and do damage control on. There is NOTHING else in your arguments.
I…asked THE original question. Do you think the Art X rules and process are fair and impartial as our town board has stated.?
Your answer, was not yes or no but this clever attempt at a dodge:
" I personally would not have made the statement that the Art X process was fair and
balanced”
That is a bullshit diversionary answer, it is NOT YES or NO, as you have demanded of me and it is not even directly answering my question as to if you think Art X is fair and impartial as your town board does. I don’t give a damn what you would have personally said…do you support this statement? Do you think the Art X rules are fair and impartial and your board is justified in saying that?
You avoided the question just as you claim I did yours.
That question is my point, has been my point, it was the original question you are desperately trying to divert!
Now how about you go back and make at least an attempt at a relevant point on my ORIGINAL QUESTION about the town’s apparent willingness to bend way over backwards to appease Art X. with their ridiculous fair and impartial comment.
A move you and I full well know has probably left a lot of their supporters really scratching their heads wondering how to deal with this and what the hell is going on!!!
STOP, The regional wind energy industrialization of one of New York State's most beautiful and environmentally sensitive areas, the 1000 Islands of the St. Lawrence River and the Golden Crescent of Eastern Lake Ontario. If you don't think you are seeing the most recent posts click on the current month in the archives to the right.
Once again, you run down another rabbit hole. What's wrong Pundt are you afraid to give me an answer? Just can't do it can you?
ReplyDeleteOkay Pundt, here we go again. You come out of the gate on this post with a bunch of bullshit to try and alter the course of the original debate.
You accuse me of being directed by others to make you look stupid. No one directed me to do anything. I don’t have to try and make you look like a myopic fool because you do that all by yourself.
It seems you are hung up on the fact that instead of saying Yes or No to your question I answered it off the cuff and from the heart. That apparently wasn’t in line with what you so desperately wanted, which is for someone to agree with you.
The problem is, it is difficult to say NO or I don’t agree with the town board telling the state that the ART X is fair and balanced. You see, the thing is on the surface it is easy to say NO to your answer if and only if you look at the statement the town board made in isolation, as you have done. If I were to do that I could say NO I don’t agree with the town board.
However, the bigger picture is the state isn’t really the enemy, BP and big wind is the enemy. I think the town board is reasonable in taking the position of not pissing all over the state, as you have done time and time again.
Instead, they are pissing on BP, which is where their venom should be placed.
You have taken my answer and conjured up a complete fantasy about my intentions, all in an effort to support you position.
And by the way, you are still running down rabbit holes in an effort to avoid my very simple question!!!!!
What’s the problem with answering it? I am not asking you to admit you are wrong, like I have said, in the end you might be proven right.
So, let’s try this again. And to make it a little more palatable for you I will rephrase the question so you don’t have to admit you are wrong right now.
The revised (or as you have said so many times in the past few years, THE DUMBED DOWN QUESTIONS)is:
If at the end of this wind journey the town board’s actions prove to be right and wind is driven from the Cape based on their course of action, will you apologize for the attacking their character, intelligence, motives and actions?
This is real simple Pundt; a simple Yes or No answer will suffice.
My guess is you are going to keep running and hiding from this question, because you CANNOT imagine for one minute that someone else might be on the right tract.
I have actually enjoyed this debate; it has, so far, proven to me and undoubtedly to your readers that you are incapable of thinking outside of the box you have stuck yourself in.
It also has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that your main goal is to be proven right. You are desperate to be seen as being right on the wind issue, anything less than that will completely destroy your ego and self worth. We both know that is the only reason you won't answer the question.
Well Pundt, get a clue this isn’t about right or wrong or your ego. It is about driving BP and big wind out of Cape Vincent.
Now why don’t you put your ego aside and answer the f@%king question that started this series of posts? I am actually starting to feel sorry for you. At first I thought you were just a little prick with a puffed up ego, but now I am starting to think you seriously just can’t bring yourself to answer a simple question that most people could answer in 5 seconds flat.
Your words:
ReplyDelete"Now why don’t you put your ego aside and answer the f@%king question that started this series of posts? I am actually starting to feel sorry for you. At first I thought you were just a little prick with a puffed up ego…"
Hhmmm…getting a bit testy this morning aren’t you??? There is something you ought to learn.
Are you just getting angry to make a point…or do you just have the inability to remain under control??? Once you loose control I own you and your argument.
Now you might want to consider that in all the things I have ever written about town officers, pro wind, or anybody in any forum, in all the wind battle, I have NEVER reached down into the sewer you apparently require as a last means of defense and called anyone a “little prick with a puffed up ego”. You just made your entire string of arguments void and made my point for me. And YOU accused me of attacks I should apologize for???? Yet you are actually doing the exact same thing or worse to defend the town board. You are such a FINE classy representative of the town board you are defending and their approach!!! Your entire high brow, supposed high logic argument just got lost in the dirt and came unwound as YOU became tighter wound!!
Take a close look readers!!! I wonder how these town officers that you are defending feel about their approach being defended by someone who has run amuck to the point of calling someone a "little prick" Now THAT I wouldc all a real distraction from their point or approach. Nice work!
I figured you would reveal yourself if you were given enough rope.
Now as to my ego and worth. It is just fine. When you were merrily poking away at your key board in some warm comfortable room last night to attempt to make some irrelevant minutia point, I had other things to occupy my time where your bullshit certainly wasn't even on my radar!
I was up until 3AM searching for a little 8 year old girl and her father lost at 10,000ft. in the wilderness in deep snow on the mountains behind Flagstaff. The girl was on the verge of serious hypothermia wen we reached her. It is very likely my search and rescue team saved at least one life and maybe two actually 3. The other half of my SAR team on the same night at the same time you were wallowing away your time in your personal agenda and foul diatribe to discredit me, was rescuing a women unconscious and injured in a deep cave. That life was saved as well.
So excuse me if I don't get down and in your bizarre little cesspool where you seem to be over occupied with my personal anatomy!
So my self worth is just fine. These missions always help keep things in perspective.
So you might see why your little self absorbed rather bizarre preoccupation with me answering your question, that actually has NO point other than some personal soap opera vendetta you have let it degrade too so the sum total is you can say
“Oh look at me…look how smart I am,. I just made Pundt answer my question…ooooo I’m so clever!!!!…
well it matters to me this AM about as much as a pimple on a flea’s butt!
“little prick with a puffed up ego”…is that all you got????
Well my bizarre friend…you’re DONE. Not because of any cleverness or logic in your debate, or not even that you really even offended me...but because with your comments YOU PROVED you simply aren’t relevant and you don’t matter, nor when kep tin proper context don't measure up to where you are worth any additional time or consideration.
Try the other blogs...I am sure they will be friendly you!!!
So you are blocking me know. Okay, I guess you proved at least one of my points. You are indeed a hypocrite.
ReplyDeleteI guess if you can't stand the heat you can just shut me down. Kind of like what you blamed the other blogs of doing to you!
Where did I say anything about blocking you? You are getting wound up tighter and tighter!!!
ReplyDeleteDo you have anything else? Please feel free. But as to a debate of any relevance on the issue...you are done!!!
Although I am not blocking you as you can clearly see, however, that might be in your best interest based on the high brow classy path you have chosen to represent your favorite town board.
I do have a criteria for whether I will engage my right to block you if I see fit...and with the "little prick" comment you are walking the edge. I have no need to entertain much further comments that in addition to having NO point they become foul.
Besides as someone so close to the town board and Art X process don't you have some homework to do instead of trolling around on this blog.
You seem to be someone of such high importance...why are you spending so much inordinate time on this blog or on me.
So readers let's get back to the real point. How do you feel about the Cape Vincent town officials saying they think the Art X rules that stripped away your rights as a community, are
FAIR AND IMPARTIAL!!!!
In 5 months we have gone from a public protest against Art X and BP on Oct 23rd, where also the CV and Lyme town officers slammed BP...to now they think the Art X rules are fair and impartial!
Are we moving forward or backward???
I never said I was important, and I certainly never said I was close to the town board or the Art X process, so no I don't have any homework to do.
ReplyDeleteThanks for paticipating this long Pundt, anyone who reads this blog knew from the beginning you would never agree to apologize, if it turned out you were wrong.
Just don't got it in you, do you!
At this point any further debate does seem pointless, you have already proved my point a few times over.
By the way I apologize about the little prick comment, I didn't realize you were so sensitive. Next time I feel the need to go there I will use the word "big" so you are not offened.
Anything else to add? Oh no please take the time and pleasure of making sure all you points are thoroughly made. I want to make sure you get all your points completely expressed. Beside you claim unequivocally you have made your points so why are you hanging
ReplyDeletearound here?
I on the other hand am moving on to further examine the board's actions concerning Art X.
Bye
Of course you are moving on, because it is to uncomfortable for you to stay here and answer a simple question.
ReplyDeleteI am sure your readers have a full picture of what you about, so yes, it is time to move on.
Later dude!
Oh and another thing. I actually need to thank you for something and I have been not been polite in recognizing your assitance.
ReplyDeleteIn tha last few day since you have entered the comment stream and we have bantered back and forth basically over nothing of substance my readership has gone way up.
I guess the whole thing is kinda like a soap opera or the "Truman Show". Let's see if he can "get' Pundt!
But the interesting side effect of all this that may work against your agenda is that as they look at this and try to figure out what the hell all this hoopla is all about, they might just back track to the real original issue and that the bulk of or town officials signed a public document with an astonshising statement that the Art. X rules that took away our home rule, that our town is claiming to uphold and has stripped our commuity of home rule rights is fair and impartial. Then the might take a deeper look at the issue and why the hell the board said that!
So thank you !!!
Please don't rush...make sure you have completely wrung out your comment towel before you move on.
ReplyDeleteAnd you made one incredible point for me in this last comment of yours.
Yes...you can bet one way or the other everyone on this blog or the others, or at town meeting, or in the paper, etc, will have the exact picture of what I am about, whether they agree or not and whether they like it or not.
And why is that??? It's because in all this debate and all your comments one critical thing is missing. Your overriding fear to identify yourself! For good or bad people know me because I have put my name behind my strong beliefs, I have been fair and open minded enough to give everyone who is interested the opoortunity to make up their minds about me long ago on this whole issue, you are just late to the train! And actually unlike you your town officers take a public stand too even thought I disagree with them, I do give them credit.
But on the other hand where does that leave you? Nobody will ever know despite your attacks or high brow logic who you are or who to hold accountable. Anonymous equates to non existence.
So when you make the argument that I have no input, or I have been sidelined, or don't count???? Really? You might want to re-examine that closer since you have set yourself up with anonymity so you are assured you don't count. When this is over I will be here and as I have for 7 years I will stand my ground. You on the other hand will fade away and blend right in among thousands of forgetable anonymous commenters that no one will ever remember.
The entire reason you can ask me for an apology to the town officers is I am wrong is completely premised on idea the you actually have a target you can aim at. You know WHO to actually ask for that apology.
Everyone in this wind debate KNOWS who I am and what I believe, and not only that in addition I provide them a forum to challenge me and even say nasty thinks about me.
I feel so strongly about this wind issue and the survival of CV and the 1000 Islands that I have taken a significant personal and emotional risk. So have others no matter what they stand for... so where are you???? Hiding behind your key board. And in comparison to these people on both side who have stood up you truly are a no account!
You on the other hand have completely cheated any reader in any forum that fundamental respect and critical part of the argument. Your personality apparently needs that...I don', I left junior high a long long time ago.
And that my friend means maybe YOU ought to examine the size of that part of YOUR anatomy that you claim is so small on me!
Pundt, you appear to be a sore loser. Yes, I took you to task and wiped the floor up with your nonsense, and you are the ONLY one who doesn't get it.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:24 sorry, but there are many who don't "get it" as you put it it. I followed the debate you and Art have engaged in for a few days, hoping that perhaps you would offer some insight into the actions of our town board, but alas it seems you were only interested ,as many before you, in taking Art to task for his sharp tongue.
ReplyDeleteFrom my view you failed the instant you resorted to the very tactics you accuse Art of, by demeaning his character, even worse because you refuse to give your claims credibilty by identifying yourself. Whatever value you may assess to this point, it is hypocritical, and cowardly to attack someone in an open forum, from the cover of anonymity. It only adds to the suspicion of your motives, and certainly weakens your efforts to the point of being uselesss.
By now most readers have recognized that ART is insensitive to the sentiments or emotions of those he disagrees with. Old news! If you plan to engage in debate with him you should come wearing armor,or stay at home, especially if you have no substance to add to the issue such as you didn't. You basically wasted all our,and your time, trying to beat Art into an apology which will likely not be forthcoming, nor has any bearing on the issue. If this seems like a victory to you, you have a very stunted view of accomplishment.
For the record Mr. Lamora I used the very tactics I accused Mr. Pundt of because that appears to be Mr. Pundt's only way of communication. I wouldn't use those tactics anywhere but Mr. Pundt's blog and I feel it is appropriate to use them here, because Mr. Pundt has done so for years.
ReplyDeleteIntersting however, when I stoop to Mr. Pundt's level (not much difference in calling some one a little prick verse challenging their intellect as Mr. Pundt does all the time) if offends him.
I would agree however, that because I stooped to his level my point was never really made.
And I have been waiting for Mr. Pundt or someone else to point that out.
You see, that is the very reason I engage Mr. Pundt in the first place, and the reason I used his tactics. His tactics don't work and that is why he is no longer relevent.
It he want's his message heard he needs to change his style.
It is interesting that you state his approach is old news, as if saying because he has always been acid tongued it is now okay for him to continue, but anybody who challanges him using the same tactic is wrong.
I could really care less if Pundt agreed to apologize if it turned out he was wrong. The point was to show the world he is a myopic thinker and he bullies anyone who doesn't think like him. Hell, I knew he would never consider apologizing from the beginning, it goes against every fabric in his being to consider someone else could be right.
So in the end, yes by mirroring Mr. Pundt's tactics my message was lost. I agree. What does that say about Mr. Pundt's message? I'll tell what it says, everyone but maybe you and a very few others stopped caring a long time ago about his opinions.
I guess your next question will be why did I take him on if he no one cares? Well the truth is I just really dislike bullies.
7:33 Jesus... are you still here? I am not relevant why are you still here? If your point is Pundt is a bad guy... I think you already tried to make that point!
ReplyDeleteYou are going to over play your hand and people are going to figure out you really have another agenda. Could even be pro wind for that matter.
You could be BP or one of their lawyers. Of even from the NYPSC. DEC or Gov's office for all we know! There is some distinct reason you are hiding your identity That alone should tip my readers off that your main point is not credible.
Yes you make a good point in your comment above, why are you taking me on if no one cares!!! Makes you look completely goofy.
And you either know it or you don't, but it came to my attention not long ago through a mutual contact that at least one town board member was in a "panic" (his words) about some input I might have or what I know. So maybe not as irrelevant as you would like people to think. But because of substantial restraint on my part you are able to give my readers a VERY distorted picture of what is going on.
Your agenda could be pro wind as well or it could be anti wind and either way you are probably on a fishing expedition.
You are desperate to make sure for some reason everyone thinks our message was long ago cast aside. You are desperate to make sure you get our most current message on the fair and impartial statement out of the limelight for examination. Put simply you are desperate to get the world to for some reason NOT listen to our message.
There is no other possible reason for you to be here.
So what is going on...is it important to make sure the messengers are properly marginalized at this point fro some reason, because our board has either figured out we are screwed, or is about to screw us with a compromise? Or worse some loyalist are staring to question or jump ship???? I say that because most of the attacks that have come on me are based in exactly that. The fact that someone is not towing the line.
And the last part of your comment is baffling. Talking about bullies? Well if you don't like bullies, why waste your time on one guy who you think is irrelevant, whynot go after some actual real bullies. Like Cuomo who took your community rights away so BP can come in and destroy your community.
Now if this is actually booo hoooo hoooo I don't like Pundt's approach, and I don't like bullies (which I SERIOUSLY doubt)...then wake up dude...this is a real ugly fight all the way around, and it has been for 7 years and will get even uglier if Cuomo and BP get their way!And where your argument completely falls apart, is why if you don't like bullies, and claim I am on...why do you keep comimg back here where if I am a bully you know I might slap you around in my argument. Makes no sense!
So like the saying goes. " I you can't run with the big dogs then stay on the porch!"
And by the way. You mentioned you would personally reveal your name to me. Well I'm not a hard person to reach...still waiting.
But as I said if all you have is booo hooo hooo and no name, then you truly are the one that is irrelevant! You remind me of kids I used to teach in jr high who would scream, Your not fair...your not fair...your not fair which was the argument to divert the fact they had legitimately done something wrong and didn't want to be accountable for it.
Booo hooo hooo,Pundt is a bad guy... call 911 maybe they will listen to you!
You are really a funny guy. It absolutely amazes me how you can make stuff up out of thin air, all just to support your latest theory.
ReplyDeleteI'll tell you what Pundt. I'll tell you who I am as soon as you answer the question I asked at the beginnin of this debate.
Don't worry, I'm prepared to wait until hell freezes over. Hope you are too.
Nope...not going to play your game.
ReplyDeleteYour credibility does not hinge on what I do so don't try to create that cover. You either put up your name and stand with the credible people who have to back their stance or you don't.
Assuming you are anti wind supporting your board...you don't even have the credibility that some of the pro wind people have to put their name behind their beliefs.
So your little side show is just that. For all you claim about me...it is interesting you don't have what it takes to get up on the big playing field. Instead you require excuses and to blame others for your shortfall. Pundt won't answer my question so booo hooo I can't post my name...it's all Pundt's fault booo hooo hooo!.
Like I said if you want to stay on the porch and watch the other dog run..that is your choice!
And you make a VERY broad assumrtion that I am going to stay around till hell freezes over.
Let me see, how should I answer this. Oh yeah, just the way Pundt would answer it.
ReplyDeleteDo you want my name Pundt? I have it all typed up and ready to go. So tell me, do you want it. Yes or no Pundt.
Nope not by your rules. You either have the credibility or you don't...don't use me as an excuse.
ReplyDeleteAgain why is it so all fired important that you get this committment to an apology on a speculative event 2 years in the future?
I could anser your question either way but taht IS NOT what you want anyhow, nor will it make you happy. You say you don't like bullies, and you claim I am one. So if that is your real agenda, then how does me committing to an apology in the future change any of that?
Fact is it doesn't becuase that is NOt what you are after.
Run with the big dogs or don't. it's your call!
Oh and by the way...at this point there will have to be a way for me to verify your name. You could say you are anybody and still no one would know.
ReplyDeleteAnd also be notified that even if you give it I will not answer your question, because it is pointless dribble. You are on a distraction mission. One that is soon going to end! And that would be the worst thing for you.
I have been beyond gracious and fair to let you on this blog and to repeatedly go after my character. That ain't so bad but your have NO point attached relevant to the big issue facing our community. The time I have gone after people with my comments...they actaully have a POINT attached, not just to go after the person. There is an actual POINT to the big issue. You know like why is our board saying the Art X rules are fair and impartial!
You are now simply creating an unnecessary distraction and soap opera AND wasting a lot of my time. I have other much more pressing things to do with my time than to keep track of your comments hour by hour.
Get it all out because you are now a short timer my friend! Your going to become a comment ghost!
Like I said go the other blogs...were they can acommodate you... But no...you like coming here for the debate don't you!
Next time you ask for a loan or a lease or whatever...try signing that document anonymously and see how far you get!!!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteTo 2:57 Don't care! Either way see my new top post.
ReplyDelete