Thursday, March 21, 2013

Have You Stopped Beating Your Wife Yet!!! - Try Answering That Loaded Question In Your Best Interest! - More On Cape Vincent Voter Fraud Claims

Seasonal voting in Cape Vincent? Here we go again!!!

So right up front let’s look at what the case law says from the NY Court of Appeals from the link below

http://www.countryvote.org/sources.html

"The key case from New York State’s highest court is Ferguson v. McNab, 60 N.Y.2d 598 (N.Y. 1983), which held that a person having two residences “may choose one to which she has legitimate, significant and continuing attachments as her residence for purposes of the Election Law.”

Note that there is NO language here that says one has to be a “primary residence”

The whole 2011 Cape Vincent election controversy surrounding seasonal resident voters is back in the news. I am sure you have seen the story on the other Cape Vincent blogs.

See the link below to the WDT article. Also note the link in the article to a letter sent to the Jefferson County Board of elections from an assessor in Canandaigua NY.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20130321/NEWS03/703219936

The basics of the controversy are that the assessor removed the STAR exemption from a couple who have what they consider a primary residence in Canandaigua, and chose to register and vote in the 2011 CV elections.

Apparently Mr. Hirschey the CV Town Supervisor attempted to assist the couple in straightening out the voting and STAR tax exemption issue. The Canandaigua assessor is claiming voter fraud. That is a serious very serious charge on his part that does not appear to match NY voting laws and specific case law that is binding on the subject.

But note the assessors question to the husband of CV voting couple.

It is a loaded question that has no relevance to the issue. It’s like asking “ Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”…you can’t answer it yes or no and come out looking any good because it uses a completely false premise that you actually are a wife beater when you aren’t . The assessors question is somewhat the same.

The CV voters say they consider their primary residence as Canandaigua. The he asked the husband. (The assessor’s questions below)

 “When I asked him if he was voting  in CV the following day (November 8th) he stated he had already voted.”  I then asked him as of November 7th, 2011 what town he considered to be his primary residence, he answered Canandaigua.”

The assessor then accused the person of voter fraud, because he had not resided in CV for 30 day prior to the election.  WHAT????   Where the subject considers his primary residence has no bearing on the issue for the purpose of voter laws as the case law shows AND is not proof of where he resided in the last 30 days.  In my opinion this It is an idiot question!!!
Is the assessor dense with these statements???!!!

The primary residence has NO bearing on the issue whether the husband is claiming it the day before the election of or 30 days prior. It is manipulative question and shows a gross lack of understanding of NY voter laws and the case law that supports them. And this Brown guy is not an election official for Christ’s sake , he is an assessor!

Maybe he should check the case law before he creates such a serious liability for himself. The highest court in NYS has said that if you own two residences you can vote at the one you want for the purpose of election laws in NY. And talking of case law. Maybe this couple should sue the assessor for his voter fraud claims. In fact maybe the seasonal voters of CV should ban together and stop dicking around and end this nonsense once and for all and form a class action law suit for voter intimidation against certain pro wind supporters in CV. In a case where someone could or has lost there STAR exemption and been impacted financially, maybe there is actual damages claim?

Here are the other voting requirements from the NYS Board of Elections.

Register to Vote

Qualifications to Register to Vote

• be a United States citizen;

• be 18 years old by December 31 of the year in which you file this form (note: you must be 18 years old by the date of the general, primary or other election in which you want to vote);

• live at your present address at least 30 days before an election;

• not be in prison or on parole for a felony conviction and;

• not be adjudged mentally incompetent by a court;

• not claim the right to vote elsewhere.

Here is the link:


http://www.elections.ny.gov/VotingRegister.html

Also here is a link to another article on this issue of seasonal voting.

http://www.observer-review.com/regulations-allow-seasonal-residents-to-vote-cms-678

Note in this article that a “significant attachment” to one of your residents is mentioned as a criteria to vote. Well I thought about that and considered that since I pay double the amount of taxes on one property in CV where I reside as a seasonal, as I do on two properties in AZ…I would damn well say I have a significant attachment and right to vote in CV!

As to Mr Hirschey’s involvement in this I have little to say other than it might have been best if he stayed out of the fray with his apparent good intentions. Let the lawyers bring up the binding seasonal voter case law and put this assessor in his place!!!





14 comments:

  1. Score one for Artie. Tonight his girl Michellle supported Karen and took the TB to task on open meeting and getting her and Arties way. What an a show as we watched Hirscheyville go down. I am sure you already know. Thanks Artie...By by Hirscheyville. John Burns will be invited to the first up. Dave was there and pleased to see Hirsheyville get rocked.

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  2. Good thing Art does not block you Rick. You only play that game.

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  3. It's Thurs. night 8pm AZ time. Don't have a clue what happened at the town board meeting. Haven't hear a thing. Somebody give me a call or please post an accurate comment as to what happened. Assumming the yoyo commenting at 7:18 has any merit what so ever.

    And 7:49, so you think it is Wiley posting these absurd comments like 7:18? They crop up every time Hirschey gets in a pinch or I post things that are fact and come too close to the truth.

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  4. No doubt about it being wiley. that bitter little man was not happy to see Hirscheyville go down tonight. Thanks art for your exposing of all this.

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  5. OK someone fill us in. what happened tonight? Wish I would hear that BP and article x went down.

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  6. SABCV, it is a strange tack you take trying to garner support for your cause. You have no credible argument to make,so you grasp at any sign of dissension among your opposition, and twist it to appear as though working in your favor. Have you no strength of character, or pride in your position?

    I did attend last night's board meeting,and contrary to your zany proclamation, I was not pleased to see the discord displayed by the board. You are confused about my goals.

    The only action by our board regarding wind development that would please me, would be a decision to denounce the ART.X review process,and prepare for legal action to defend our local laws,against the tyranny of this fascist- like legislation.

    There are obviously some disagreements among the board members, resulting in a minor power struggle, as it happened, on display for the public to see. Honestly, what does it matter-quibbling over what to include in another futile letter to the PSC, struggling to respect the public's right for transparency.

    You can revel over this little spat if you need to, turn it into a political shitstorm if you want. don't include me in your party. What was most embarrassing was all the pro-wind salivating like hyenas, hovering over a kill, that wasn't even theirs,anticipating a free meal-scavengers,if you will.

    I am diametrically opposed to wind development,and any and all of the tactics your faction use to promote it. Most anyone in the county knows that by now. You have made fools of yourselves, and continue to do so. I am also opposed to the path the town has chosen to resist wind development. Don't try to portray me as in any way advancing your cause, simply because I disagree with the board's position.

    If you can't make a convincing argument , at least display some modicum of respect for yourself. Afterall, when all is said and done ,that is all you are left with.

    Dave LaMora

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  7. Interesting maneuver by Wiley and King to re-enter the voter fraud issue. What could be their intent? It is apparrent there is no official confirmation that any voter fraud occurred,except in the minds of the losing Cape democrats. What value is there in publicizing a letter from an assessor who clearly overstepped his boundaries,and became involved in a political issue.He risks a slander suit by accusing a legitimate voter of fraud, and then taking unjustified actions himself to punish this taxpayer. Every official response has vindicated the taxpayer/voter, noting no evidence of election law violation, yet the Voters for Wind decide to flaunt the story locally. To what end?

    Is this yet another boneheaded move by the pro-wind "faction" attempting to intimidate potential legitimate voters,and discredit our town supervisor, or is this a grassroots level attack on the state voting laws? Seems unlikely many voters would object to their town supervisor intervening on their behalf,when they have been wronged. One could hardly call this manipulating the process, when the laws are clearly on their side.


    I'm going to go with a boneheaded move, seems to fit the modus operandi of the voters for wind better. As Bill Engvall would say-"here's your sign"

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  8. So let's get back to 7:18's idiotic and bizarre interpretation of what happened at last nights CV TB meeting. I have reviewed very carefully the Weed video of the whole meeting and replayed some parts.

    1st I am appreicative for all the board reviewing the issue of open meetings and executive sessions and how things are conducted since it has been brought to their attention by various sources including me. I also think Councilman Byrne was correct in raising the issue of any additional board meetings being video taped. If this board meets there should be a video record. That is not to suggest they are doing anything wrong,but Byrne makes a good point that they all ran on open and transparent govt, and there is nothing better than to have a place where you can view first hand without interpretation what occurred at a meeting. Byrne would know this better than anybody from his video experiences.

    In addition when it came to the letter being discussed and whether there should be an addition, what I see is a board have a spirited or livley debate over issues of critical importance and doing it in public. In fact it is refreshing to see some of that on this board that has appearred so far as monochromatic behind a Hirschey Schneider Art X monolithic strategy. What you saw was not unusual, or disloyal, or some conjured up radical turn of events. In case you missed it, or have forgotten and no longer recognize it, it was actually DEMOCRACY in action. And it is healthy. Where is it written that a group of elected officials must all tow one line and that anything else implies being a traitor, disrespectful or that the govt is coming apart. That is absurd, contrary to democratic principles, and in fact would be a large anomoly in the running of modern govt's facing volatile issues.

    Now to 7:18 comments. Did you and I view the same meeting???

    How you come to the bizarre conclusion that what you saw was the Hirschey govt coming apart, or coming down, or that Councilwoman Oswald, or Byrne for that matter was somehow trying to take down Mr. Hirschey complete eludes a ration mind. It is really bizarre and twisted when you see the democratic process in action, don't even recognize it as such as most American citizens would, and conclude immediately it is some kind of underhanded attempt to overthrow or take down a govt.

    What I see in 7:18 is a person and a faction that is extremely desperate and irrational to reach the conclusions you reached based on this meeting.

    That being said I still don't agree with all this CV govt still going along with the Art X process. And in the end they are only debating how to use the Art X process, and I think chasing Art X is a huge mistake that will cost us dearly

    That is a discussion that none of them are having or have had with any substance, and that is still distirbing to me. Hirschey called the game and that was the end of the story as they all went along with one mind becuase the State duped them into thinking it was the only approach viable.

    How about we apply a little democracy to that debate on the bigger picture.

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  9. Well Artie,you could be right, maybe last night was just a little democracy and robust debate in action, in cape vincent, then again ,it sure looked like Hirschey was damned uncomfortable when your two rogue councilpersons challenged his stud letterwriter,Schneider. Don't sell yourself short, kid,you did a bang up job planting the seeds for this little rebellion. Karen S and mr. Fixit were grinning ear to ear.Can't wait to see what's next on your agenda. Great work,we're behind ya.

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  10. Thank you for a realistic view of what happened last night. I was at the meeting and I found it refreshing to see that the people on my town board were able to discuss important issues in ront of the people they supposedly represent.

    Thank you all for showing us that discussion is allowed in making decisions for our communities. Thank you for showing what has been much needed and showing that there are some people on this Bosrd who will stand up for their beliefs. If they will will do that , theres a better chance they will stand up for my beliefs - whether it agrees with the others or not!

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  11. 5:31

    Rogue, rebellion, stud????

    Well I guess if you want to comment on my blog...at least until I get sick of you...you do provide my readers great entertainment with your flair for the theater of the completely absurd.

    But you are right about one thing though...you ARE behind me, and a lot of us...and that is where you and your wind cronies have been for 7 years, and it is why your don't have turbiness spinning right now, because you have been so behind and can't figure it out. Too bad you let BP and Marion Trieste push you around and into most of the idiotic actions you and your pro wind cronies have done over the last 7 years...FROM BEHIND!!!

    At that my deluded commenter friend is why YOU are sitting where you are having to make ridiculous anonymous comments as you watched your old govt get "taken down" because they didn't get it either, and now you sit on the sidelines watching the Hirschey govt. decide your future for you, and that is just frying you bacon.

    All because you pegged it...you really are desperate and BEHIND!!! And I think you know you are behind the State and their Art X too, because you probably figured it out in your desperation desperation that you ain't getting all the 124 BP turbines you are all drooling over n o matter if Hirschey gets uncomfortable or not!

    Then not only will you be behind but you will be reduced to begging.

    And the real last laugh is mine,and will put you even further behind because I know JLL is not taking comments, and I doubt Pandora's will post them either, so if I dump your nonsense that pretty much limits your audience for your absurd comments and games now doesn't it!

    How is the view from behind!!! That would be assuming you are not playing your game from the anti wind side!!!

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  12. Thank you 6:39 for your comments.

    I too found it very refreshing to see the spirited exchange. The board and town officers have been a monolith till now and that is more disturbing to me than to see them debate and honestly grapple with issues and not always agree. It disturbes me when it appears one or two dominant personalities running the agenda and everyone else just follows along.

    My greatest hope would be the same type of open dialouge concerning an alternative approach instead of being obedient to Cuomo and Art X, An alternative I and Dave LaMora have presented to a many of these town officers in detail.

    I think Clif Schneider did inadvertently clear something up last night. It sounds as if one or two people are drafting these letters to the PSC, and they are circulating by email for comments and approval. I get it that it is the modern information age, but that doesn't really lend itself to open govt either, since that all occurs out of site, unless it happens like last night where the final dis cussion and decision is brought before the board in public view and voted on.

    I don't think that has happned previously. As open meetings laws state committees are considered public bodies for the purpose of the open meetings laws. When you gather officers together via email, keep in mind there is no meeting, there are no official minutes or announcements. Now I don't have a huge problem with the email idea since I realize it is efficient as long as somehwere in the decsion chain it is brought before the public. Previously those letters just appear to have gone to the NY PSC, and actually it appears committees can't do that without board approval. It is clear in the law that committees can not act for the board, only the board can do that. previously there appearred to be no discussion or approval.

    Hopefully we will see some changes since Mr Hirschey right on camera said they intend to be sensitive to open meetings laws and abide by them.

    And it would be particulalry disturbing if any of the meetings of the Art X committee or officers making these Art X decision were meeting at a private residence.

    Rumors are rumors, but it did catch my attention to investigate what was giong on with this committee after two months from it's formation, and the process of the letters.

    And one last thing for Councilmen Bragdon and Schneider. If you are intending to have a private aside conversation before the official meeting which is perfectly legal..don't do it in front of a Steve Weed OPEN MIKE!!!

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  13. I saw the Weed film of the meeting. Stumpf brought up open meetings and bitched. It reminded me. A councilmen, the PB held a secret meeting. They got caught by audio and video. It's real and been seen. They lied. It's on record. When the bloggers go to trial for costing the councilmen their election it will be one of many things to prove they deserved to lose. Wind voter greed and hyprocrisy will be a topic of discussion in hell. Ms. Edsal wife of Richie who is now a seasonal resident and strting a business in Cape Vincent was one of those who lied.

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  14. In fairness..mistake..Virginia Edsall she did not lie. She said to reporter no comment. All the others at the meeting lied. Hardly wait for the trial to see what they say on the stand. Hope the judge lets it go on.

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