Sometimes I think about this Art. X thing and the up coming elections
and much of what people say doesn’t add up. It’s funny how sometimes we simply accept
the hoopla without much critical thought. There is some logic here that is
running around in circles!
For example, it is basically said that if the Dems. and Citizens
for Fair Govt. ( CFG) get elected we will be in serious trouble in Cape Vincent. Why? Because
the thought goes that CFG will convince
the and the Art. X board to let BP walk
away with our town and destroy it with their wind plant. If I
don’t have that right, then what is the thought process? And the current town board and its supporters are
telling us the current govt. is our only hope to save the community from CFG
convincing the Art. X board from destroying our town. That would mean the Art. X board would suddenly
have to completely ignore any studies
and science the town experts and lawyers have provided to defend our law and
community’s health, safety, and welfare.
But is it really that simplistic?
So tell me…which way is it?
Is the Art X process fair, impartial, even handed and balanced ( our
town board’s words) so it is trustworthy and credible enough to participate in? Or is it so run amuck, reckless, and
irresponsible that the second the Hirschey board lost its majority the Art. X siting
board would just fold up, ignore the
environmental issues and science and just give it all to BP so they could destroy
our town simply because CFG and VFW were in power and said so? Seriously!
Now wait a minute!
Bob Brown the CV zoning committee chairman said with confidence on NPR
radio that Art. X will not preempt our law because THEY will understand the reasoning and science behind protecting
the health, safety, and welfare of our community. But if that is the case and
the Art X board does understand that…then a change of govt should not matter to
them...I mean if they truly understand what Brown is saying as he is convinced
they are, they should still understand how the health, safety and welfare
should protect our community no matter who is in our govt.
Or are you telling me that if the current board lost their majority the
Art. X board would suddenly NOT comprehend or agree with the current town board and Mr. Brown that the health, safety, and welfare in our
law should protect our community? Seems
to me if the Art X approach and the siting board is credible enough for Brown
to be convinced they will not preempt our law based on our health, safety, and
welfare, then if the board and the process
is credible as Brown and the Hirschey govt and their supporters believe, then a change in govt should not change what the
siting board thinks about health safety
and welfare in our law . Or would they
do as the Republicans imply and with a political change of wind would they suddenly
accept the CFG and BP version of health safety and welfare or scrap that
argument altogether for CFG and BP??? Does the Art. X board’s comprehension of
health, safety, and welfare on the wind issue and the science that backs it actually
depend on who is in power in CV govt????
If so that would not make them or the process very credible, nor fair,
impartial, or balanced, now would it!!!
Again…which way is it???
OK so are you telling
me all these state agencies that are supposed to
be protecting our community and region and
the state are simply going to let BP run amuck in the 1000 Islands just because
the Hirschey Republicans are not re-elected??? You mean that all these state
agencies will feel absolutely no responsibility to protect our region
environmentally with the necessary studies and environmental scrutiny and science and will just do whatever CFG and BP
want if elected unless the CV Republicans are there to stop them or convince them
otherwise? Wow…that certainly does not
say very much for the credibility of Art. X system the Hirschey govt. has
obediently bought into thinking it will protect our town!!!
But wait…our town board IS going along with Art. X and being
obedient to the process, and they and their supporters are saying we should
engage in the process and trust it because it is fair and impartial, even
handed and balanced, yet in the same election breath are suggesting if CFG gets
in power, that the next second that will
entirely change the Art. X board’s mind and they will just give it to BP.
So which way is it? Is the Art. X process trust worthy and
credible and fair and impartial, even handed and balanced, or would they recklessly
fold up with CFG in power???. Because if
they truly are as the town believes then, the Art. X process should be just
that… fair, impartial, and even handed, on the issue regardless of which govt
is in power… right? Or is it???
If in fact the State agencies in control of the Art. X
process, like the NYPSC DEC would be so reckless and irresponsible to just give
it all to BP and CFG as we are led to believe by the Hirschey govt. and their
supporters the minute the Hirschey board was not there, then how is it we could
trust Art. X anyhow with ANY decision or
expect them to take any of our expert’s inputs and science to defend our law and
community? It doesn’t add up!
If in fact the Art. X process is that tenuous reckless and run amuck that they would give it all to CFG
and BP when the local political wind changes and not make efforts to protect
our community and region anyhow…then it further makes my case we should not be involved in such a corrupted flaky process at
all!!!
In fact, at least on the wind issue if the Art. X process IS
fair, impartial, even handed, and balanced, and you believe in it as the town
seems to, then it really should not
matter WHO is in power in CV. If Art. X is all that the town has said it is, then no
matter WHO is in power in local govt, we should all as parties in the process still
be able to go before the siting board and make our case, and they should still
understand the relevance and overwhelming logic of our science and studies and
not preempt our law.
That is the sneaky little problem with sitting by and
calling the State system that removed your home rule fair and impartial. Now on the wind issue you are agreeing to trust the State to be fair and to make the final decision and hope they agree
with you, and if it’s a fair system as the town believes it should not matter
who is in power locally on the wind issue, because it is not a local decision
any longer and the State will fairly and impartially sort it all out for you. Or
is the Art.X system only fair as long as they are in local power?
In essence on this wind issue by accepting the removal of your home
rule without objection, and branding the process that did that as “fair and
impartial” you have also made local elections on the wind issue effectively irrelevant
and all the election hoopla over wind development at least, is pointless! It’s
not a local issue any longer and you accept that. So not
only did the Sate take your home rule, they have also taken your basic democratic
voting power and process with it.
As the new local saying goes…Had enough yet!!!
"Home rule in CV is already gone. That is fact."
ReplyDeleteThank you Art for your support and helping us make that point. Thus, there is no sense in keeping Bragdon, Oswald and Hirschey on board. Wind is a done deal because the only thing that would stop it is home rule and you have pointed out very effectively that it's gone, it's a fact. You have driven home the folly of Hirschey and Schneider and Bragdon, Oswald and Byrne have caught on.
Thank you Art
Nope...nice try but no cigar on your repeated twisted attempts to spin the facts into fantasy!
ReplyDeleteLook at my post. I never said don't vote for Hirschey, or don't replace Oswald and Bragdon. Never said it. Never said I was supporting you and whatever your agenda is. That is your desperation to twist the facts. Never said wind is a done deal, never said the only thing that will stop it is home rule. I said that whatever the decision, the State will make it, not any of us in CV. That does not equate to saying get rid of the current govt.
The bottom line here is you are an outright and desperate liar to try to make a point, no matter who you are and what your agenda is.
Your bottom line is that for whatever reason you are desperate to get my posts to stop by trying to portray me as helping the pro wind side against the Hirschey govt. in hopes I will back off in guilt of helping the pro wind side.
Well cowboy...it ain't going to work!!! It's quite appropriate you don't put your name on your comments. I wouldn't either if I was a spineless desperate manipulative liar!
"Well cowboy...it ain't going to work!!!"
ReplyDeleteIt already has, Art
Thanks
I am anti wind like Art. But despite his oft expressed hatred of Hirschey ( don't deny it you little puke) I will support Urban but recent developments have opened serious questions about Oswald and Bragdon. Whomever takes their place will have no effect on what has occurred with A-10. Your buddy Byrne is a puke, too.
ReplyDeleteThe hoopla is over. Watch the video and you will see Urban and Clif thrown to the wolves by Oswald, Byrne and Bragdon.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Art and Dave.
ReplyDeleteyour logic escapes me on this one. It was a direct result of the local elections that produced the revised Comp. Plan., and Zoning Law which are at issue with the ART.10 review. A return to power of the CFG would produce no support for either of those documents, in fact they would probably openly undermine them.
Your lecture about home rule is irrelevant to the reality that would face this community were the voters for wind to regain political power.
Your argument is simply argument for arguments sake and has no value in the real world we face.
8:39 You said...
ReplyDelete"It was a direct result of the local elections that produced the revised Comp. Plan., and Zoning Law which are at issue with the ART.10 review."
OK tell me WHO makes the final determination if those documents will be enforced on the wind issue??? It won't be your town board!
The Hirschey board could be fully reelected and it could still turn out the State will preempt both those documents in full or in part. The State now has control over both our comp plan and zoning and that is FACT, not an argument for argument's sake, and you better get your head around that fact.
Let me ask you this...do you think the State agencies who have an environmental stewardship to our community and our state would simply give it all to BP if the CFG were in power?
And how much support is the current govt giving your comp plan and zoning when they suck up to the state and tell them the Art X law that took away your home rule rights to enforce those documents is fair impartial and even handed???!!!
And then there is Judge Agresta that said he would like it if the parties would agree on a BP project alternative that...oh you know...might not be 100% in compliance with our law!!!
Right now your comp plan and zoning are a suggestion to the State. On the wind issue at least it is yet to be seen whether they will become law and be enforceable...well maybe not 100%. So you better start thinking where those not 100% in compliance 500 ft. turbines are going to go!!!
So how exactly do you see the home rule issue in CV on wind? I suppose you are one of these people who thinks our current govt is fighting to save our home rule??? They might be fighting to save our zoning, but not home rule. There is no fighting to save home rule...it is LONG GONE!!!
ReplyDeleteOK tell me WHO makes the final determination if those documents will be enforced on the wind issue??? It won't be your town board!
Bingo Art,
Exactly why you have been able convinced the citizens that re-electing Oswald, Bragdon and Byrne is a waste for us seasonals. Best to give us someone who has a better understanding of the community. You have proved that Hirschey and Schnieder have wasted time and money trying to appease A Ten.
Thanks Art
And what you have proved once again is you are a desperate manipulative liar. Let's see...do you feel your wind money slipping away when A-10 comes in with a compromise and takes away 30 or 40% of your turbines AND your money??? That is the fact even if your people were in power...you are screwed and the State will see to that either way!
ReplyDeleteAnd since you don't want us to vote for the current town board candidates up for election, stop your bullshit game and cowboy up...and tell me who I should vote for...come on, time is getting short pal. I'd like to know who you are running. I mean hey...if I'm on your side let's stop keeping me in the dark get on with it so I can help you promote your candidates.
Please don't leave us hanging!!!
Jeremy Wood, Republican Councilman
ReplyDeletePaul Aubertine, Democratic Councilman
Kirk Grant, Republican Supervisor
Al Wood, Democratic Supervisor
A shoe in.
Thanks Art.
3:49 Looks like the joke is on you ART.
ReplyDeleteIs this a slate of candidates, or a cast of characters for a session of Saturday Night Live, or maybe an old rerun of laugh -in.
Where are all the Masons, give up on them? Decide they're not worth the baggage they bring? Oh wait, I guess J Wood is part Mason.
Seriously, I hope this is a joke; just pullin' ole' Art's leg, right?
I mean are these the people you would really nominate? Al Wood for supervisor? Can't be so. Not even you bunch of boneheads would take a chance on Al (civic charlie) Wood to take public office again. Iguess if Kirk Grant were elected, we could save money by closing the town offices and running the town from the bar at Aubreys.
God help us all if this is for real!
Art, if this slate of candidates is for real, do you think you might want to alter your message about the relevance of the upcoming elections?
ReplyDelete5:00
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I hope they DO run these guys because it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Old Al Wood is a crack up. What is he going to claim as a record? That he allowed Roger Alexander to put up an $80,000 Osprey nest on the wrong property and he can't read a zoning map!!! Well with the Osprey thing maybe he will get the environmental vote!!!
As to my message... you are not listening to my message. Step out of the Art hates Urban box for just a second and look at reality. What do you think my message is??? I suppose you think my message is anti Hirschey candidates. It isn't. I haven't said one word about not supporting them or not voting for them. I disagree with them on the wind approach with Art. 10 yet have praised them when I think they have done some good things on wind and other things right. But I don't goose step behind them just because someone says so.
My point is about home rule and the wind issue and when in an election year frenzy people start trying to claim or imply that the current govt.is fighting for our home rule rights. That is not close to accurate. In reality they are trying to defend their "wind zoning suggestion" they gave to the State to decide the final outcome. They are going along and appeasing a system that TOOK our home rule rights away. You could elect the above commenter's candidates Huey, Duey, and Louie and his other brother Louie and it won't have any impact on home rule. It is gone since 2011 with Art. X. You can elect Hirschey and his group, and that won't have any impact on defending, protecting, retaining, regaining or losing our home rule either. Good or bad, no matter what the final decision from the State is, it is NOT a home rule decision. The State will either agree with Hirschey and his law, or they will agree with CFG or BP and preempt it. Or more likely they will give us a compromise which I think Judge Agresta was foreshadowing with his comments on May 21st that won't make anybody happy. Keep in mind not only is our town board not willing to oppose Art. X, but they wrote our zoning to appease it and the State. That is NOT home rule or defending it!
Keep in mind that Hirschey and virtually everyone in his govt. are going along and not willing to oppose Art. X that took our home rule away. Fact is, so is the pro wind side going along with Art. X and the loss of our home rule. So no matter which govt you give the majority too the reality is it is not going to change the fact the State removed our home rights.
So I wish the Hirschey side and their supporter would stop telling you a fantasy that the CFG side will take your home rule and Hirschey is defending it and will somehow protect it and bring it back. That is NOT REALITY!!!
If you think you have home rule and it will be taken away? Then go to the next planning board meeting and ask Chairman McSherry for the current BP CV permit application for their project. He can't give you one. Why? Because the planning board that would normally site the BP project under actual home rule and according to our wind zoning regulations now has no power to do that, because the Art.10 board will make that decision since they removed our home rule powers on the wind issue.
And neither CFG or Hirschey if they win this election is going to change that!!!
In my opinion if Barnum and Bailey were offering contracts in town...then I might vote for the circus act suggested above.
The "Art hates Urban " box is one you created all on your own. We're not in it, you are. We would like to help you out of it, but you persist in drawing the box flaps in on yourself.
ReplyDelete4:50 Actually you are making my point for me...thank you.
ReplyDeleteOf everything in my above comment on important CV issues, and as our town is being ripped apart by corporate and political powers, all you can focus on is the Art hates Urban comment???? So who is stuck in that box???
The Art hates Urban thing started long ago when some Hirschey supporters couldn't get beyond their jr. high school behavior simply because I wouldn't immediately goose step with them behind Urban because I had questions and concerns. They just could not tolerate it, so that became the mantra to try to embarrass me into compliance. Didn't know that you had join that rank!
You are certainly intelligent enough to differentiate between democratically asking questions and having a legitimate disagreement with someone over policy and not stooping to that type of group think mentality.
Maybe include a primer with each of your posts, to inform your readers exactly which parts are suitable for commenting on. Save everyone the difficulty of deciding what is appropriate to focus on.
ReplyDelete