There have been a lot of detailed letters going out to the NYPSC from the town of Cape Vincent on CV policies and decisions concerning BP and the Art X siting process. So who drafts or writes those letters? How are the subject matter and positions and details decided? Is it one person, say like CV Councilman Clif Schneider who drafts them and then everyone just signs on? There are after all a lot of town officers signing these letters in agreement. If somebody doesn't agree with a letter, or wants input, how is that accomplished? By private phone or conference call? Are they meeting somewhere as a group to discuss and have input to these letters before they sign them? If so that is a lot of town officers out of public view!
You mean to tell me there are 14 officers, the majority of our town govt, and they are all thinking exactly alike and in lock step on everything. That seems to defy the odds of typical human behavior.
I see no mention of meetings like that or minutes, or a listing on the town website calendar. I did see that on recent letters a little loyalty statement is attached that I thought was strange that says all the undersigned town appointed officers agree with the letters. That is kinda interesting. I also noted that Rockne Burns of the CV planning board who has a wind lease does not sign, and neither does Joe Martin of the CV ZBA. Does Mr. Martin not agree with the letters?
So where and how are all these Art X decisions being made? Are they at town board work sessions? I don't see any minutes on the town website or videos of TB work sessions. I don't see any real detailed discussion of these letters at planning board or TB meetings. So where are all these decisions and policies in these letters being made?
In early January Mr. Hirschey the town supervisor announced a hand picked Cape Vincent Art X advisory committee to guide the town's decisions and reactions to the Art X process with BP. It has two officers each from the CV ZBA, planning board, and town board. That is six town officers. Are they making the Art X decisions and drafting policy and decisions seen in these letters? If so where and when do they meet? Are the meetings public? I see nothing on the town board website calendar, or any minutes from these meetings. So when, where, and how do they meet and make decisions ? Have they meet already, once twice, more times?
So how exactly are all these Art X decision being made, where, when, who, and where is the record?
If you can't answer these questions definitively, then we may have an open and transparent govt problem!!!
If someone can enlighten us to the above questions PLEAE feel free to comment!
UPDATE:
Since I posted this post a few hours ago I did note on the CV blog JLL that the CV Art X Committee is meeting every Thur. at 1-3pm. However, that does not constitue a public notice. But the WDT paper is annoncing the same information and it is also dated march 12th. This committee was named in Jan. more than 2 months ago. So is this their first meeting or have they been meeting before?
Again...when I click on the town website calendar of meetings going back to Jan. 2013, all the meetings seem to be at other times like 7, 4, or 6 pm and there is no mention of any Art X Committee meetings.
Now there seems to be a lot of decisions and letters being made about the town's role in the Art X process. Did this Committee of 6 town officers meet before on these issues? If so where, when, and are there any minutes?
STOP, The regional wind energy industrialization of one of New York State's most beautiful and environmentally sensitive areas, the 1000 Islands of the St. Lawrence River and the Golden Crescent of Eastern Lake Ontario. If you don't think you are seeing the most recent posts click on the current month in the archives to the right.
Thursday, March 14, 2013
Friday, March 8, 2013
Close Your Eyes and Imagine!
Close your eyes and imagine a minute that it is 2008 or 2009, and you are in either a town board meeting, or a planning board meeting and either Tom Rienbeck and our former town board, or Rich Edsall and our former planning board and either one made this statement:
"We are now going into exec. session. I am going to make a motion that we go to executive session.
The purpose of the executive session is to discuss negotiations of, with (or about) the wind farm(s) and that will be a necessity of confidential information"
In 2008 or 2009 the wind opposition and the Cape Vincent blogs would have stroked out over that comment and the fact these boards went into exec. session on this subject matter as stated. Guaranteed!!!
In fact we were stroking out over what was being said in OPEN meetings by these boards, not to mention if they gave this reason to go to exec. session.
But when our current town supervisor says this statement to his board as he did verified on video, especially after this board was elected as an anti wind board according to many, and on open and transparent govt, ethics, and repeatedly saying our law is the final statement and they will NOT negotiate with BP... and NO ONE bats an eye, especially other board members!!!
How times change.
Thursday, March 7, 2013
Were There Really Secret Negotiations By Our Town Board About BP?
A stunning quote from our Town Supervisor Mr. Urban Hirschey during the Feb. 21, 2013 town board meeting. Do they actually want to discuss secretly negotiations with or about BP and Art X???? Here is the statement as best I can decipher it from the Steve Weed videos.
"Ah...we are now going into exec. session. Ahhh… I am going to make a motion that we go to executive session. "
There were some interruptions about voting on vouchers, then Mr. Hirschey continues:
"The purpose of the executive session is to discuss negotiations of ...ahhh of ...ahhh how do I say... ahhh with (or about) the wind farm and that will be ahhhh be a necessity of confidential information”
Now I know the 1st reaction of many Hirschey loyalists is going to be Oh Pundt is just stretching the truth, mis-quoting, or again picking on Mr. Hirschey. Well…use this link to Steve Weed productions and see for yourself what Hirschey said.
http://www.steveweedproductions.com/TOCV2013.php
Save time by taking the video time slider and go all the way to the last couple minutes of the video. You will hear them talking about the vouchers and then Mr. Hirschey announces the exec. session. Listen carefully to what he says the exec. session is about. I think councilman Schneider tries to help Urban with the explanation saying it’s also about Art X.
So what you hear, despite what might have been meant, is that the town board is going into exec. session to talk about negotiations with the wind farm (BP) and Art X. and it must be confidential!!!! Is he kidding?????
First, you can’t just drop into exec. session on anything that suits your fancy that you want out of public view. NY Open Meetings Laws are very specific on that and you can see those rules below at the end of this post. Second what is so sensitive about negotiations with BP (the wind farm) and Art X that it has to be confidential and held out of public view?
Third, and this is the mind boggler to me, is that even though this may have bee a mis-quote by Urban and Clif, that NO ONE seemed picked up on this or even questioned it at all. The papers didn’t mention it as far as I can tell, and the other CV blogs only mention the exec. session in passing and nothing about the subject matter.
Let me get this straight….Our town board says it is going into exec. session to talk about confidential information about negotiations with or about BP and Art X, secretly and everybody just yawns and is perfectly OK with that and no one bats an eye or even asks a question? Have we reached the point of being so paralyzed in CV that this doesn’t even raise a question?
This is the “monkey” I was talking about in a previous post that was in plain view and it is as if no one even saw it happen!
Not to mention there is a record everyone can look at on video. Is CV completely paralyzed on the wind issue, is it complete blind faith of this town board, or are we all paralyzed that this kind of thing just slips unnoticed into oblivion???? Thank God for the video. Mr. Hirschey may have meant something else but he sure as hell said what he said!
Now I ran this by my wife and some others to see if I heard it right. They all verified the quote. Others have indicated that is not really what Mr. Hirschey meant. Well, Urban has this knack of leaving a trail of vague misleading statements on the wind issue that everybody later has to scramble to explain the real meaning of. I guess they have the secret decoder ring that allows them to understand what he really means no matter what he actually says.
Now let’s give the benefit of the doubt and say this is not what Hirschey or Schneider meant about the exec. session, or that in fact that wasn’t even the subject of the session. That would mean the video record, which is an official town record mind you, is badly in error on a very sensitive subject, and exec session is governed by strict clear rules. Haven’t we had enough of inaccurate or missing minutes on the wind issue??? So do we just leave this glaring error uncorrected? That leaves open some interesting perceptions. And as Councilman Byrne pointed out earlier in the meeting about ethics that he learned at the meeting of the Association of Towns…ethics can be ALL ABOUT perceptions? And the perception here is not a good one by any means if you are paying attention!
Of course we will never actually know because that is what exec. sessions are intended to do is keep things from public view. Hirschey’s statement still is what it is, and we probably will never have proof that the exec. session was about something other than what he, with Clif’s help said it was about. That is the rub! As it stands now the statement says they had a secret exec session meeting about negotiations with or about BP and Art X out of public view that must be confidential!
The laws basically say that minutes must be taken in exec. sessions but only if a final determination and vote are taken. So we may never have an idea what was discussed other than what Urban said was going to be discussed. BUT. why in the hell didn’t another board member speak up and say something to clarify and correct Urban’s statement if indeed he was incorrect or mis-quoting the subject matter? That is a very interesting question to ponder. This entire wind issue and how it is handled is extremely controversial, and hot and these kinds of things don’t help cool it down any! Fact is, not many people are willing to question Mr. Hirschey. And this is an example of the consequences of that blind faith!
Maybe some board member who was in the session would like to at least give a more clear explanation of what the meeting generally was actually about, because we have been told many times there will be open and transparent govt. and our zoning law is final, we will defend it, and there will be NO negotiations with BP.
In light of that alone and this exec. session statement by Hirschey, and considering the sensitive and controversial nature of the issue it seems to it would be irresponsible for some board member not to clear this up ASAP, preferably the town supervisor who said it and may have meant something else.
There are no minutes of this general town board meeting posted yet on the town website. It will be interesting to see if they quote Hirschey saying what he actually said on video about the exec. session. Now at the next TB meeting minutes must be approved. If they are not accurate, or this question still lingers on this issue, or what was said, let’s make sure the minutes reflect the video as to what was actually said, no matter what was meant, and then the board can clear it up and vote to amend the minutes for greater accuracy and public understanding and confidence. Seems to me certain of our current board members were real upset with our past CV govt about what they perceived as “secret meetings”, so what do ya say we clear this up ASAP! My blog is open to any town board member who wants to respond and I will make it a priority post.
Below are the rules for exec. session. I certainly don’t see anything that would allow them to talk about negotiations with or about BP or Art X out of public view. And if Hirschey only mis-spoke then what was the exec. session generally about? You will note in section 105 of open meetings laws they DO need to give a general public reason why they are going to exec. session and one would assume that must be an ACCURATE explanation.
God help us that it wasn’t actually what Urban said it was about because then we have some very serious problems!
Below is a list of rules for exec. sessions from the NYS Dept. of State. In light of Mr. Hirschey’s explanation…or if he mis-spoke, see if you can figure out on this list what they needed to go to exec. session for and keep it confidential from the public. Were ANY issues about BP or wind discussed? If so what…and why keep it secret?
Also here is the link to the exec session rules:
http://www.dos.ny.gov/coog/openmeetlaw.html
§105. Conduct of executive sessions.
1. Upon a majority vote of its total membership, taken in an open meeting pursuant to a motion identifying the general area or areas of the subject or subjects to be considered, a public body may conduct an executive session for the below enumerated purposes only, provided, however, that no action by formal vote shall be taken to appropriate public moneys:
a. matters which will imperil the public safety if disclosed;
b. any matter which may disclose the identity of a law enforcement agent or informer;
c. information relating to current or future investigation or prosecution of a criminal offense which would imperil effective law enforcement if disclosed;
d. discussions regarding proposed, pending or current litigation;
e. collective negotiations pursuant to article fourteen of the civil service law;
f. the medical, financial, credit or employment history of a particular person or corporation, or matters leading to the appointment, employment, promotion, demotion, discipline, suspension, dismissal or removal of a particular person or corporation;
g. the preparation, grading or administration of examinations; and
h. the proposed acquisition, sale or lease of real property or the proposed acquisition of securities, or sale or exchange of securities held by such public body, but only when publicity would substantially affect the value thereof.
2. Attendance at an executive session shall be permitted to any member of the public body and any other persons authorized by the public body.
"Ah...we are now going into exec. session. Ahhh… I am going to make a motion that we go to executive session. "
There were some interruptions about voting on vouchers, then Mr. Hirschey continues:
"The purpose of the executive session is to discuss negotiations of ...ahhh of ...ahhh how do I say... ahhh with (or about) the wind farm and that will be ahhhh be a necessity of confidential information”
Now I know the 1st reaction of many Hirschey loyalists is going to be Oh Pundt is just stretching the truth, mis-quoting, or again picking on Mr. Hirschey. Well…use this link to Steve Weed productions and see for yourself what Hirschey said.
http://www.steveweedproductions.com/TOCV2013.php
Save time by taking the video time slider and go all the way to the last couple minutes of the video. You will hear them talking about the vouchers and then Mr. Hirschey announces the exec. session. Listen carefully to what he says the exec. session is about. I think councilman Schneider tries to help Urban with the explanation saying it’s also about Art X.
So what you hear, despite what might have been meant, is that the town board is going into exec. session to talk about negotiations with the wind farm (BP) and Art X. and it must be confidential!!!! Is he kidding?????
First, you can’t just drop into exec. session on anything that suits your fancy that you want out of public view. NY Open Meetings Laws are very specific on that and you can see those rules below at the end of this post. Second what is so sensitive about negotiations with BP (the wind farm) and Art X that it has to be confidential and held out of public view?
Third, and this is the mind boggler to me, is that even though this may have bee a mis-quote by Urban and Clif, that NO ONE seemed picked up on this or even questioned it at all. The papers didn’t mention it as far as I can tell, and the other CV blogs only mention the exec. session in passing and nothing about the subject matter.
Let me get this straight….Our town board says it is going into exec. session to talk about confidential information about negotiations with or about BP and Art X, secretly and everybody just yawns and is perfectly OK with that and no one bats an eye or even asks a question? Have we reached the point of being so paralyzed in CV that this doesn’t even raise a question?
This is the “monkey” I was talking about in a previous post that was in plain view and it is as if no one even saw it happen!
Not to mention there is a record everyone can look at on video. Is CV completely paralyzed on the wind issue, is it complete blind faith of this town board, or are we all paralyzed that this kind of thing just slips unnoticed into oblivion???? Thank God for the video. Mr. Hirschey may have meant something else but he sure as hell said what he said!
Now I ran this by my wife and some others to see if I heard it right. They all verified the quote. Others have indicated that is not really what Mr. Hirschey meant. Well, Urban has this knack of leaving a trail of vague misleading statements on the wind issue that everybody later has to scramble to explain the real meaning of. I guess they have the secret decoder ring that allows them to understand what he really means no matter what he actually says.
Now let’s give the benefit of the doubt and say this is not what Hirschey or Schneider meant about the exec. session, or that in fact that wasn’t even the subject of the session. That would mean the video record, which is an official town record mind you, is badly in error on a very sensitive subject, and exec session is governed by strict clear rules. Haven’t we had enough of inaccurate or missing minutes on the wind issue??? So do we just leave this glaring error uncorrected? That leaves open some interesting perceptions. And as Councilman Byrne pointed out earlier in the meeting about ethics that he learned at the meeting of the Association of Towns…ethics can be ALL ABOUT perceptions? And the perception here is not a good one by any means if you are paying attention!
Of course we will never actually know because that is what exec. sessions are intended to do is keep things from public view. Hirschey’s statement still is what it is, and we probably will never have proof that the exec. session was about something other than what he, with Clif’s help said it was about. That is the rub! As it stands now the statement says they had a secret exec session meeting about negotiations with or about BP and Art X out of public view that must be confidential!
The laws basically say that minutes must be taken in exec. sessions but only if a final determination and vote are taken. So we may never have an idea what was discussed other than what Urban said was going to be discussed. BUT. why in the hell didn’t another board member speak up and say something to clarify and correct Urban’s statement if indeed he was incorrect or mis-quoting the subject matter? That is a very interesting question to ponder. This entire wind issue and how it is handled is extremely controversial, and hot and these kinds of things don’t help cool it down any! Fact is, not many people are willing to question Mr. Hirschey. And this is an example of the consequences of that blind faith!
Maybe some board member who was in the session would like to at least give a more clear explanation of what the meeting generally was actually about, because we have been told many times there will be open and transparent govt. and our zoning law is final, we will defend it, and there will be NO negotiations with BP.
In light of that alone and this exec. session statement by Hirschey, and considering the sensitive and controversial nature of the issue it seems to it would be irresponsible for some board member not to clear this up ASAP, preferably the town supervisor who said it and may have meant something else.
There are no minutes of this general town board meeting posted yet on the town website. It will be interesting to see if they quote Hirschey saying what he actually said on video about the exec. session. Now at the next TB meeting minutes must be approved. If they are not accurate, or this question still lingers on this issue, or what was said, let’s make sure the minutes reflect the video as to what was actually said, no matter what was meant, and then the board can clear it up and vote to amend the minutes for greater accuracy and public understanding and confidence. Seems to me certain of our current board members were real upset with our past CV govt about what they perceived as “secret meetings”, so what do ya say we clear this up ASAP! My blog is open to any town board member who wants to respond and I will make it a priority post.
Below are the rules for exec. session. I certainly don’t see anything that would allow them to talk about negotiations with or about BP or Art X out of public view. And if Hirschey only mis-spoke then what was the exec. session generally about? You will note in section 105 of open meetings laws they DO need to give a general public reason why they are going to exec. session and one would assume that must be an ACCURATE explanation.
God help us that it wasn’t actually what Urban said it was about because then we have some very serious problems!
Below is a list of rules for exec. sessions from the NYS Dept. of State. In light of Mr. Hirschey’s explanation…or if he mis-spoke, see if you can figure out on this list what they needed to go to exec. session for and keep it confidential from the public. Were ANY issues about BP or wind discussed? If so what…and why keep it secret?
Also here is the link to the exec session rules:
http://www.dos.ny.gov/coog/openmeetlaw.html
§105. Conduct of executive sessions.
1. Upon a majority vote of its total membership, taken in an open meeting pursuant to a motion identifying the general area or areas of the subject or subjects to be considered, a public body may conduct an executive session for the below enumerated purposes only, provided, however, that no action by formal vote shall be taken to appropriate public moneys:
a. matters which will imperil the public safety if disclosed;
b. any matter which may disclose the identity of a law enforcement agent or informer;
c. information relating to current or future investigation or prosecution of a criminal offense which would imperil effective law enforcement if disclosed;
d. discussions regarding proposed, pending or current litigation;
e. collective negotiations pursuant to article fourteen of the civil service law;
f. the medical, financial, credit or employment history of a particular person or corporation, or matters leading to the appointment, employment, promotion, demotion, discipline, suspension, dismissal or removal of a particular person or corporation;
g. the preparation, grading or administration of examinations; and
h. the proposed acquisition, sale or lease of real property or the proposed acquisition of securities, or sale or exchange of securities held by such public body, but only when publicity would substantially affect the value thereof.
2. Attendance at an executive session shall be permitted to any member of the public body and any other persons authorized by the public body.
Right In Plain Sight!!!
Have you ever lost something in your house, like say your car keys and because you were so sure in your mind the keys had to be somewhere else that it completely paraliyzes your ability to see what you are looking for and it is actually right in front to our face and when you find your keys you are stunned because they were right there in front of you in plain view all the time?
Maybe you are looking for something like your writing pen you dropped , and you are covinced it is red, but it actually it is green and since you are so convinced you are right that the pen you are looking for is red it's right there in front of you and you don't see it?
Ever have that experince? You end up operating in such a frozen paradigm and thought pattern that nothing gets in, even stuff that should slap you wide awake to awareness. Something in your mind is occurring...you are absolutely sure of it, and sometimes it is reinforced by others to the point that it has no relationship to reality.
In my search and rescue training I read of a study once on preconceived thoughts and observations. That becomes something you need to be aware of if you are looking for lost people in difficult environments. If somebody tells you the lost subject has Levi's and a red shirt, do you screen out all other information and possibilities? That is not very effective. It's also called situational awareness. As I remember it, the gist of the study was that a bunch of people were told to watched a basketball game on TV and were told to watch for something specific in the play of the game or about the players, like how many times the ball was passed and who passed it the most etc. After a while in the bacground there was a monkey running around. When the game was over people were asked what they saw.
No one saw the monkey!
Now let me ask you something.
If you were sitting somewhere in Cape Vincent with a highly reinforced preconceived idea you bought into, and supported by many other people including your peer group for several years ... would you be alert and situationally aware enough to pick up on anything unusual???
Or would you be paralyzed by your own thinking even though what you may have missed was actually right in plain sight like a lost set of car keys?
So did you see the monkey(s)?????
Maybe you are looking for something like your writing pen you dropped , and you are covinced it is red, but it actually it is green and since you are so convinced you are right that the pen you are looking for is red it's right there in front of you and you don't see it?
Ever have that experince? You end up operating in such a frozen paradigm and thought pattern that nothing gets in, even stuff that should slap you wide awake to awareness. Something in your mind is occurring...you are absolutely sure of it, and sometimes it is reinforced by others to the point that it has no relationship to reality.
In my search and rescue training I read of a study once on preconceived thoughts and observations. That becomes something you need to be aware of if you are looking for lost people in difficult environments. If somebody tells you the lost subject has Levi's and a red shirt, do you screen out all other information and possibilities? That is not very effective. It's also called situational awareness. As I remember it, the gist of the study was that a bunch of people were told to watched a basketball game on TV and were told to watch for something specific in the play of the game or about the players, like how many times the ball was passed and who passed it the most etc. After a while in the bacground there was a monkey running around. When the game was over people were asked what they saw.
No one saw the monkey!
Now let me ask you something.
If you were sitting somewhere in Cape Vincent with a highly reinforced preconceived idea you bought into, and supported by many other people including your peer group for several years ... would you be alert and situationally aware enough to pick up on anything unusual???
Or would you be paralyzed by your own thinking even though what you may have missed was actually right in plain sight like a lost set of car keys?
So did you see the monkey(s)?????
Wednesday, March 6, 2013
WDT Takes a Slap at the Lafargeville Solar Project - But Wait the Cape Vincent Town Board Wants to Tinker With Our Tax Dollars and Put Solar on Its Government Buildings Too!!!
In an opinion piece by the Watertown Daily Times they take issue with the Lafargeville solar project. Some people, like Pandora’s Box of Rocks blog, and some of her readers are upset that the WDT is not taking a slap at BP and the wind issue in Cape Vincent.
You can see the WDT piece at this link:
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20130306/OPINION01/703069978
Last spring about this time I said basically what the WDT is saying now about solar…especially in NNY. I was saying it then because the Cape Vincent Town Board and their green agenda was asking BP to bring a commercial solar project to CV like BP’s in Brookhaven NY on Long Island.. Not to mention that solar project removed 42,000 tress!!! It is a pipe dream. And of all the companies in the world they were asking BP to do the project. But BP is no longer in the solar business. I guess they figured what our CV board has not figured out with their green aspirations.
As I pointed out on this blog last year, I know a little bit about this since I have lived in a passive solar home for 26 years here in the cold mt. climate at 7000 ft. above sea level in N.AZ. We have about 300 mostly sunny days a year on average. I have also had the opportunity to visit many of the old and brand new massive commercial solar projects here in the desert SW, both thermal and voltaic systems. And those visits include projects under construction right now in CA. and NV. One that is now owned by Acciona in NV too. If you ever experienced one of these projects first hand I doubt you would want it in CV any more than you would want industrial wind turbines.
According to the Energy Information Administration solar still gets only about a 15% or so capacity factor and they are very expensive. With that capacity factor wind actually out performs solar in expense and production.
Now apparently the CV town board with its green agenda is considering solar voltaic arrays for some of its govt buildings. That is what the WDT should also be questioning. Believe me, it would be another green fiasco experiment with our tax payer money especially in cloudy NNY.
Look at the solar input maps U.S.at this link. It tells the simple story.
http://store.sundancesolar.com/ussorama.html
Heres on e for January
What also bothers me is that apprently our town board's green emotions have gotten the better of their thinking, research and logic on this green and solar thing so they can all look green and feel better.
One reader commented on the opinion piece and said solar was a green unicorn and rainbows fantasy. I guess that is where our board is on solar and perfectly willing to waste our tax money on the fantasy. Like asking BP of all people to put up a commercial solar project that would require BP get a PILOT taxing agreement to be feasible.
One commenter on Pandora’s blog wondered why the WDT isn’t taking a shot at industrial wind and BP in CV. There is a reason. Just start putting together the puzzle pieces of who is connected to who and friends with who!!! That should get you started toward the answer. And keep in mind our town board has a wish list of things they want to get from BP...that should help you figure it out too.
I would have put this comment on Pandora’s blog, but I am sure she would have blocked it since it questions the solar and irrational green agenda of the Hirschey govt of which her husband is a town officer. So my comment would have been like a solar voltaic array in the dark of night. It would not have seen the light of day!!!
You can see the WDT piece at this link:
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20130306/OPINION01/703069978
Last spring about this time I said basically what the WDT is saying now about solar…especially in NNY. I was saying it then because the Cape Vincent Town Board and their green agenda was asking BP to bring a commercial solar project to CV like BP’s in Brookhaven NY on Long Island.. Not to mention that solar project removed 42,000 tress!!! It is a pipe dream. And of all the companies in the world they were asking BP to do the project. But BP is no longer in the solar business. I guess they figured what our CV board has not figured out with their green aspirations.
As I pointed out on this blog last year, I know a little bit about this since I have lived in a passive solar home for 26 years here in the cold mt. climate at 7000 ft. above sea level in N.AZ. We have about 300 mostly sunny days a year on average. I have also had the opportunity to visit many of the old and brand new massive commercial solar projects here in the desert SW, both thermal and voltaic systems. And those visits include projects under construction right now in CA. and NV. One that is now owned by Acciona in NV too. If you ever experienced one of these projects first hand I doubt you would want it in CV any more than you would want industrial wind turbines.
According to the Energy Information Administration solar still gets only about a 15% or so capacity factor and they are very expensive. With that capacity factor wind actually out performs solar in expense and production.
Now apparently the CV town board with its green agenda is considering solar voltaic arrays for some of its govt buildings. That is what the WDT should also be questioning. Believe me, it would be another green fiasco experiment with our tax payer money especially in cloudy NNY.
Look at the solar input maps U.S.at this link. It tells the simple story.
http://store.sundancesolar.com/ussorama.html
Heres on e for January
What also bothers me is that apprently our town board's green emotions have gotten the better of their thinking, research and logic on this green and solar thing so they can all look green and feel better.
One reader commented on the opinion piece and said solar was a green unicorn and rainbows fantasy. I guess that is where our board is on solar and perfectly willing to waste our tax money on the fantasy. Like asking BP of all people to put up a commercial solar project that would require BP get a PILOT taxing agreement to be feasible.
One commenter on Pandora’s blog wondered why the WDT isn’t taking a shot at industrial wind and BP in CV. There is a reason. Just start putting together the puzzle pieces of who is connected to who and friends with who!!! That should get you started toward the answer. And keep in mind our town board has a wish list of things they want to get from BP...that should help you figure it out too.
I would have put this comment on Pandora’s blog, but I am sure she would have blocked it since it questions the solar and irrational green agenda of the Hirschey govt of which her husband is a town officer. So my comment would have been like a solar voltaic array in the dark of night. It would not have seen the light of day!!!
Well, Booo Hooo Hooo - What Do We Do Now????
As with many in Cape Vincent I have been watching with interest the letter exchange between the Cape Vincent govt. officials and the NYPSC concerning BP and their PIP and upcoming scoping process for Art. X concerning BP’s Cape Vincent Wind Farm.
Some of the quotes in these letters from the Town to the PSC are truly mind boggling and a bit frightening.
A quote from one letter:
“Our belief is that BP has no intention of being transparent and fully informative as they press forward with this project. Their past history with us suggests this will be the case."
Geee whiz…no kidding, how long has BP been ripping our town apart?
A quote from another letter:
“Mr. Cohen, the elected and appointed officials who represent the Town of Cape Vincent firmly believe BP and its representatives continue to pursue the PIP in an intentionally provocative manner. It seems clear that they perceive the Article 10 process as merely a pro forma exercise.”
SERIOUSLY!!! What the hell did they expect? Are they just now figuring out that this is what BP would do after the disaster BP has turned our community into right on their doorsteps for closing in on a decade? Jesus…what kinda bubble are these people living in? Do they watch TV or read the newspapers? Are they aware that the US govt charged BP as criminals, felons, and liars?
This letter has to be a joke right? It just can’t fathom that these town officers seriously believe that with BP’s record around the planet AND right in front of their faces in our community that BP was somehow coming to CV as a fully reformed company and ready to turn over a new leaf and play nice and fair by all the rules just as the town is willing to do. They even ASKED BP for a solar project!!! Yup..let’s ask a company that has one of the worst records on the planet, has been charged as felons, and liars to bring us a solar project so we can all feel better and green!!! Oh yeah, and let’s ask then for a “wish list”
They are felons…we should be able to get something out of them!
Or wait… I guess they thought that they were just so much smarter, and their logic and zoning was so overwhelmingly convincing that they could convince BP to role over and play nice and fair, and they could convince BP to just up and change the paradigm of its entrenched business model and environmental record used around the planet for decades.
Yup that must be it.
And BTW have you noticed anything funny in these letters?
I counted 14 CV town officials that signed one of them. So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me we have 14 town officials…virtually all of the town govt., and they are all thinking EXACTLY alike??? WOW that kinda pales to the attacks that Dave LaMora and I think alike at times. 14 town officers in lock step!!! In this day and age I didn’t think you could find 14 people in lock step on anything. Hell even in the old Rienbeck govt there were at least some dissenters. I guess this govt all are thinking that BP was going to play nice and fair in the Art X process despite its record and despite what BP has done to them right in front of their faces in our community ? What town have they been living in the last 10 years? Not to mention Cuomo’s green agenda and what he has done in our community…or has NOT done and his willingness to strip away our rights on behalf of wind developers like BP! Yup this going along with BP in the State’s Art X process is a brilliant idea and is shaping up real well so far!
And these are the people we entrusted our community to and were supposed to protect us from the industrial wind take over of our community and region? And they honestly think BP was going to play fair and not do everything it could to manipulate and distort the process.
Did it even register when they found out that a top NYPSC commissioner is the wife of BP’s CVWF lawyer? Oh I forgot … that BP and the PSC said everything was OK don’t fret about it and the town was good to go after that little love letter. Then when BP doesn’t play nice in their CV sand box Booo Hooo Hooo they are asking advice from the very process, and PSC, that has a commissioner with a CVWF BP lawyer as a husband that is helping to manipulate the process for BP….and they are asking that PSC for advice on what to do???
What the hell kinda pill did Hirschey slip into their water?
Some of the quotes in these letters from the Town to the PSC are truly mind boggling and a bit frightening.
A quote from one letter:
“Our belief is that BP has no intention of being transparent and fully informative as they press forward with this project. Their past history with us suggests this will be the case."
Geee whiz…no kidding, how long has BP been ripping our town apart?
A quote from another letter:
“Mr. Cohen, the elected and appointed officials who represent the Town of Cape Vincent firmly believe BP and its representatives continue to pursue the PIP in an intentionally provocative manner. It seems clear that they perceive the Article 10 process as merely a pro forma exercise.”
SERIOUSLY!!! What the hell did they expect? Are they just now figuring out that this is what BP would do after the disaster BP has turned our community into right on their doorsteps for closing in on a decade? Jesus…what kinda bubble are these people living in? Do they watch TV or read the newspapers? Are they aware that the US govt charged BP as criminals, felons, and liars?
This letter has to be a joke right? It just can’t fathom that these town officers seriously believe that with BP’s record around the planet AND right in front of their faces in our community that BP was somehow coming to CV as a fully reformed company and ready to turn over a new leaf and play nice and fair by all the rules just as the town is willing to do. They even ASKED BP for a solar project!!! Yup..let’s ask a company that has one of the worst records on the planet, has been charged as felons, and liars to bring us a solar project so we can all feel better and green!!! Oh yeah, and let’s ask then for a “wish list”
They are felons…we should be able to get something out of them!
Or wait… I guess they thought that they were just so much smarter, and their logic and zoning was so overwhelmingly convincing that they could convince BP to role over and play nice and fair, and they could convince BP to just up and change the paradigm of its entrenched business model and environmental record used around the planet for decades.
Yup that must be it.
And BTW have you noticed anything funny in these letters?
I counted 14 CV town officials that signed one of them. So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me we have 14 town officials…virtually all of the town govt., and they are all thinking EXACTLY alike??? WOW that kinda pales to the attacks that Dave LaMora and I think alike at times. 14 town officers in lock step!!! In this day and age I didn’t think you could find 14 people in lock step on anything. Hell even in the old Rienbeck govt there were at least some dissenters. I guess this govt all are thinking that BP was going to play nice and fair in the Art X process despite its record and despite what BP has done to them right in front of their faces in our community ? What town have they been living in the last 10 years? Not to mention Cuomo’s green agenda and what he has done in our community…or has NOT done and his willingness to strip away our rights on behalf of wind developers like BP! Yup this going along with BP in the State’s Art X process is a brilliant idea and is shaping up real well so far!
And these are the people we entrusted our community to and were supposed to protect us from the industrial wind take over of our community and region? And they honestly think BP was going to play fair and not do everything it could to manipulate and distort the process.
Did it even register when they found out that a top NYPSC commissioner is the wife of BP’s CVWF lawyer? Oh I forgot … that BP and the PSC said everything was OK don’t fret about it and the town was good to go after that little love letter. Then when BP doesn’t play nice in their CV sand box Booo Hooo Hooo they are asking advice from the very process, and PSC, that has a commissioner with a CVWF BP lawyer as a husband that is helping to manipulate the process for BP….and they are asking that PSC for advice on what to do???
What the hell kinda pill did Hirschey slip into their water?
Saturday, March 2, 2013
More Secret Meetings?????
Well OK...maybe not a "secret meeting" but just a quiet unannounced "consultation" between BP and our two most important town officers, and as far as I can tell no detailed accounting or record of what was discussed or decided at the meeting!
Recently on the PSC website I noted BP's spreadsheet of PIP activities. You can look at it at this link. Right now it is the top document.
http://documents.dps.ny.gov/public/MatterManagement/CaseMaster.aspx?MatterSeq=40867
Among the PIP outreach items by BP this item caught my eye!
23‐Jan‐13 Stakeholder Consultation
Meeting with Town of Cape
Vincent Fire Department, Town
Supervisor of Cape Vincent, and
Planning Board Chairman of
Cape Vincent
So along with the CV Fire Dept. the town supervisor and planning board chairman were present in the "consultation." This item also indicates that BP's project status and turbine array were discussed as you can see below from BP's spread sheet bullet point comments on the meeting. If an updated turbine array was a part of the consultation I sure would like to know what they were consulting about! Here is what BP says...
• Project status update including
proposed turbine array
• Information regarding the
Article 10 permitting process
• Discuss fire and safety measures and equipment/resources
available to address
Now maybe I missed something while I was away traveling but I have caught up on most CV wind news since and I don't recall any notification or discussion publicly of this little get together. I checked the WDT, the minutes from the plannng and town board and the other CV blogs. There is not a mention anywhere other than BP's brief mention of this meeting on the PIP spreadsheet to the PSC. So what project or turbine array details were discussed? Apparently two of our most important town officers, Mr. Hirschey and Mr. MacSherry were "consulting" with BP, and were presented project updates and turbine array information as part of the discussion according to BP's spread sheet. Was this a meeting with Chandler himself or some other BP rep? Are there any detailed official minutes or notes other than the BP spreasheet on this meeting since two of our most important town officers were in attendance and details of the BP project and array were apparently discussed. Like I said I can't find anything about it except what BP put in their spreadsheet. Was different information presented about the project status or the turbine array? Funny that the town has been complaining that BP has not provided enough information on the project or maps of the array etc. But apparently Hirshey and MacSherry got a private update.
So let me get this straight. A private meeting occurred somewhere between our town supervisor Mr. Hirschey, and our planning board chairman Mr. MacSherry, and with some one from BP, probably the project manager from BP, Chandler. And apparenttly according to BP's spreadsheet the project was discussed as well as the turbine array. And apparently a very few CV citizens were aware of it and there is no information that I can find about it on a public level. Interesting.
Now I don't know about you, but based on all the bitching about secrecy and secret meetings in the past, and our current govt's mantra of open govt, I would be a hell of a lot more comfortable if there is a need for BP and two of our most important town officers to meet that it be done in public and not in private, and there be public notification of it or a detailed follow up on it somehwere, and I don't care what the subject matter is about, but certainly if the updated details of BP's project and the turbine array are part of the discussion.
In fact Mr. MacSherry as a member of a previous wind law committee should be more sensitive to this idea since he once met unannounced and privately with Rienbeck and wind developers concerning one of our previous wind laws as the wind developers objected to it and privately, not in a public hearing as the public is only offered, and the developers took that law apart line by line in private.
Now why does this concern me? Well for one there has already been enough secrets and deals and meetings in this town with wind developers and because not long after Mr. Hirschey originally became our town supervisor he said this publicly in a town board meeting...
"To get through this very, very contentious and difficult issue about the wind turbines...Yes. no or where...And somwhere along the line, at some point there will be compromises and there will be decisions one way or the other. In my own mind. I don't know if that's whether you agree with it. Sometime. some where that is going to happen."
At some point there will be compromises? Really? So are we at that point now? Well Mr. Hirschey, you wanna enlighten us to what those compromises are going to be with BP and when they are going to occur? You have already told us there is going to be a wish list as to what to get after BP puts up their wind farm.
With this mind set I would much prefer any meeting between our town supervisor and our planning board chairman and BP's Chandler or any other BP rep...that they be announced and held in public...not in a private forum were a discussion could start away from the public view on a possible compromise. And there should be a full detailed acounting of what was discussed and decided. Now that may not be what the open meeting laws require, but after all we have been through on this issue it is just pure common sense!
Help me out here. Did any of you know about this meeting and can you provide details of the discussion?
If such a detailed account exists then I expect it be posted on the town website ASAP! Or maybe Mr. Hirschey or Mr. MacSherry can enlighten us.
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